Curse

Matix411 · Sep 25, 2006, 03:32 AM // 03:32

The face alone should not make the character.
We should get a wider facial selection, and just because people want Tyrian faces on Nightfall characters, doesn't mean we should have to start a new character in Tyria.
And if they're going to stick to chapter-specific facial selections, then make a wider variety for the other campaigns rather than having 10-15 for Tyria, 5-10 for Cantha and 5 for Elona.
I personally would like to see all the campaign facial selections added under one template, but because this probably won't happen due to picky people who are strictly 'campaign' oriented, I would like to see a few more faces added to Nightfall in the future.
Albeit ... the facial selections that were there for the Factions preview event ended up being all the faces available once Factions was actually released.
So, chances are, none of our wishes will be granted, and if they are, than someone out there really cares about their customer's views and opinions.

Lady Lozza · Sep 25, 2006, 04:21 AM // 04:21

I for one have nothing against more faces, I just don't think that we should be able to combine faces from other campaigns. Call me old fashioned, but RP is suppose to be in character. Sometimes you end up with characters that aren't quite what you expected. But guess what? You play anyway! You even have fun!

Funny thing is, there is a good chance that the lack of facial and hair selection was actually caused by US. How can I say such a thing? Easily! 90% of (non-bot) monks have the buns. There is a variety of about 3 different faces. 90% of eles have either the layers or the pigtails, and that same 90% has exactly the same face. Ritualist is the same, 90% of them have the same face AND hair. Why bother taking the time to add variety when the bunch of sheep that the gaming population is, refuses to use it?

Finally, I love it, just love it, how these spirited discussion always include the argument/suggestion that if Anet doesn't do as "I" want, they must not care about their customers.
Anet has a plan, they have a game, which is THEIR creation. If they can accomodate player suggestions then most of the time they are happy to do so, but they won't violate their plan simply to keep a vocal minority happy. And that is all this is. Guru isn't the be all and end all. We aren't even a signifcant sample size of the GW population - and even we are divided. The idea that you want it, and that person over there wants it, and so everyone MUST want it, is delusional at best.

cherikku · Sep 25, 2006, 04:42 AM // 04:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Lozza

I for one have nothing against more faces, I just don't think that we should be able to combine faces from other campaigns. Call me old fashioned, but RP is suppose to be in character.

Your argument about restricting the faces for the sake of RP is not really valid. It has been well-established in the lore that Canthans, Tyrians, and Elonians have been visiting each other's continents for a long time. For instance, Canthan Xunlai Agents in every outpost, Elonians in the Crystal Desert, the Zaishen, etc etc. So, isn't it possible that people have immigrated and settled on other continents?

Let me give you an example.

Say you want to make a Canthan-faced character in the Nightfall campaign. In full RP mode, you could claim that your character is the descendent of a couple of Canthan merchant families who settled in Elona 50 years ago. Thus, he/she looks Canthan, but his/her BIRTHPLACE is Elona. Note that birthplace, from a story point of view, is the only thing that makes Prophecies/Factions/Nightfall characters different from each other.

For those of you who want to choose cross-campaign faces and hairstyles, it's not that big of a stretch to imagine racial mixing. You could make a Tyrian-faced warrior with Elonian-style hair, and explain it by saying his mother was Tyrian and his father was Elonian.

Lady Lozza · Sep 25, 2006, 04:54 AM // 04:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by cherikku

Your argument about restricting the faces for the sake of RP is not really valid. It has been well-established in the lore that Canthans, Tyrians, and Elonians have been visiting each others continents for a long time. For instance, Canthan Xunlai Agents in every outpost, Elonians in the Crystal Desert, the Zaishen, etc etc. So, isn't it possible that people have immigrated and settled on other continents?

Let me give you an example.

Say you want to make a Canthan-faced character in the Nightfall campaign. In full RP mode, you could claim that your character is the descendent of a couple of Canthan merchant families who settled in Elona 50 years ago. Thus, he/she looks Canthan, but his/her birthplace is Elona.

For those of you who want to choose cross-campaign faces and hairstyles, it's not that big of a stretch to imagine racial mixing. You could make a Tyrian-faced warrior with Elonian-style hair, and explain it by saying his mother was Tyrian and his father was Elonian.

However it is ALSO established, that trade relations between the continents broke down during the Guild Wars. So while some residence of Elona may claim Ascalon ancestry, chances are they are actually of mixed blood and wouldn't have full Ascalon faces anyway.

Honestly I don't see the big deal. Anet is looking into the idea of a hair dresser. If you want a Factions or Prophecies face, why not just wait it out? There are some many other things that are more important than getting that perfect hair style. Besides which, I've heard a number of people complain that they don't like the NF hair either. So if you want an Ascalon character you should be starting it in Ascalon and then bringing it to Elona.

But then I forget the most important part of these boards, the idea of: "I WANT, therefore Anet should work their butts off to make it happen for ME."

As I said, we are barely a drop of water in the GW population. Our opinions are our opinions not, as some of you would have, divine edicts.

cherikku · Sep 25, 2006, 05:15 AM // 05:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Lozza

However it is ALSO established, that trade relations between the continents broke down during the Guild Wars. So while some residence of Elona may claim Ascalon ancestry, chances are they are actually of mixed blood and wouldn't have full Ascalon faces anyway.

Actually, I just checked the timeline. Cantha began trading with Tyria in 221 AE. The Guild Wars began in 1013 AE, and ended in 1070 AE, and according to you, trade relations broke down during the Guild Wars. Present day is somewhere around 1072-1075 AE.
So, it is STILL possible that a group of, say, Canthan families immigrated to Ascalon in, say, 1010 AE, thus they would have been living there throughout the Guild Wars. If their children married each other, they would have produced descendants who look fully Canthan but were born in Ascalon. Thus, the descendants could easily have been followers of Prince Rurik.

My point is that RP can very easily be used to explain away cross-campaign characters. So RP is not a good reason to restrict us from mixing and matching faces and hair!

Lady Lozza · Sep 25, 2006, 05:37 AM // 05:37

Quote:

If their children married each other, they would have produced descendents who look fully Canthan but were born in Ascalon. Thus, the descendents could easily have been followers of Prince Rurik

If, and only if, the population size is large enough - and the people involved are xenophobic enough - to sustain such a pattern.

Regardless of what argument is used. There is NO reason why they should do this. So very many people are not simply after the faces, they are after the hair too. I say again, if you want an Ascalon character why not create it in Ascalon?

The largest problem I forsee with allowing all faces and hair from "paid for campaigns" is that by the time we reach chapter X there will be so many hair and face options for a new character that it will take several hours to create. YES, customisation is nice. YES, it does tend to make the game better. However 90% will still choose a Paris Hilton clone, and - for those who are serious in trying to create a nice "character" (as opposed to a supermodel/prima donna clone) - the creation of a character will become a 4 hour affair. This is ok for your first character, maybe even the second. But slowly character creation will become a pain in the rear. And I've not even got started on the technical side of things!

I'm all for variety. I'd love to see 10 options for hair and face (each) per campaign, but I see no reason for digging the old ones out of the closet.

Omega X · Sep 25, 2006, 06:18 AM // 06:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solar_Takfar

We should get at least 40-50 face selections for each class/race combo imo, not some 12 or so;

Are you crazy?! ITs probably hard enough for them to come up with realistically decent faces for VAIN players. But 50?! That is pushing it. Realistically, Atleast 7 -10 faces is all there is needed per class per location. Otherwise the development team spent all its time on faces and not on the actual game itself.

Quote:

One thing that I found somewhat strange (has been pointed by other posters, too) is that female NF faces don't look as "african" as male faces; especially the noses are too thin in almost all faces, whereas most males have broad noses. I'd like to see some more authentically negroid female faces, too (which are present in most NPCs, btw), if only to match the male faces available.

Umm. Come now, there is no need to use that term. African is the actual and factually correct term, Keep using it. And not all African female faces have wide noses. Matter of fact, there are plenty female African faces that have skinny noses.

ALSO, Anet put in 8 shades of skin color for most professions to avoid the racial crap. What the hell?!

Spellforge · Sep 25, 2006, 09:28 AM // 09:28

I'm not adding anything new - just adding my voice incase Anet looks in
I think we need more faces / hair.
Like others have said - if you have all 3 chapters you should be able to mix and match from all of them - and across profession , why not let my ele have a necro face and hair that would spice things up.
For the person who said why bother making more choices when 90 % use the same anyway (such as the monk's buns) That because we don't have a wide enough choice. Of cause 90 % of female monks are going to have "buns" hair if there is only a choice of 2 ok looking styles.
The chars who can make themselves look the most unique are the warriors because of the obvious different helmets they can have. The different Monk scalps , necro scars , ranger masks etc just don't differentiate themselves from each other enough to add to the character customizations

Cineris · Sep 25, 2006, 10:12 AM // 10:12

Adding in my two cents here:

I think a lot of the new options are very nice. Creating a character in the Nightfall campaign, and then looking back at the Tyrian campaign, I was pleasantly surprised that even the Nightfall options I didn't like aesthetically were better executed, technically (particularly the hair options). It's clear the Prophecies team has learned a lot from the first release.

That said, the paucity of options is a serious concern of mine. Comparing the options in Nightfall to those in Prophecies -- Not only does Prophecies have a larger number of facial options, but the facial options are far more distinct. Some characters have wider/closer larger/smaller higher/lower eyes, lips, noses, cheeks, jawlines than others. You have a real choice, even if there are similar options. In Nightfall the majority of the differences between the faces seem to be eye and lip coloration and eyebrow angle. When you factor in that there are only six or so faces for each class, the similarity between the faces is really hard to excuse.

I am rather disappointed that many of the design choices made in previous campaigns have been continued rather than expanded upon. E.G. Female monks with hair in buns, rather than some more interesting hairstyles.

In general I think the Nightfall characters offer a nice amount of additional options for people who already own Prophecies/Factions, but I don't think I would be satisfied with them if I only owned Nightfall. It is my strong hope that those of us who own multiple campaigns (or plan on it) will be able to create characters utilizing features from all owned campaigns, rather than only one. I think that would satisfy most of the people, including myself, who have concerns about the lack of character creation options.

TsunamiZ · Sep 25, 2006, 11:38 AM // 11:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Lozza

I completely disagree with being allowed to match faces and hair from previous chapters. If you want a prophecies character, start it in Ascalon.

it's not about making a prophecies character or not. it's about having more choices in how your starting character will look in expansions which are very limited in choices.

Lady Lozza · Sep 25, 2006, 12:53 PM // 12:53

Tsunami - I am all for choice, not once have I stated otherwise. I simply think that choice should consist of NEW faces and hair, rather than old ones.
Furthermore, if you read what I've written you will realise (and if you look around you will come to realise) that a goodly proportion of players want to create a 100% Tyrian character in NF. Why not just create the character in Tyria? After all, for pvp purposes creating a character from Cantha/Tyria/Elona is all about picking a certain "look". If you want the Tyrian look you make the character Tyrian.

Solar_Takfar · Sep 25, 2006, 01:09 PM // 13:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omega X

Are you crazy?! ITs probably hard enough for them to come up with realistically decent faces for VAIN players. But 50?! That is pushing it. Realistically, Atleast 7 -10 faces is all there is needed per class per location. Otherwise the development team spent all its time on faces and not on the actual game itself.

As I said, look at what mod teams have done in their spare time for other games. it's perfectly possible. So yea, maybe I was shooting a tad high with 50, but I don't see why a professional artist team couldn't make a dozen faces in one day, thus "doubling our fun" (TM anet) by making us have more choices

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omega X

Umm. Come now, there is no need to use that term. African is the actual and factually correct term, Keep using it. And not all African female faces have wide noses. Matter of fact, there are plenty female African faces that have skinny noses.

I knew I would have to clarify that -_-

Actually, African does not mean much regarding ethnicity - you can have egyptians, moroccans, congolese and (nowadays) south africans that were born in Africa and don't share many facial traits. Negroid is a tecnhically correct term (despite what connotations a similar word might have taken in English), as is Mongoloid for "oriental" people and native americans (note this one also can also have negative connotations), and Caucasoid for indo-europeans. Here, just to get a little grasp of what I'm saying (despite being on wiki, it's firmly based on bibliographical sources, so it's moderatly turstworthy):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Races_o...l_anthropology

Now, this is a rather old classification; there are plenty other ways to classify human ethnicity (ie. in five "races" that include, for example, indigenous australian as a separate group), including classifications that completely ditch the "race" concept, which is quite tenuous nowadays. Regardless, "negroid" remains a way to easily identify the appearace of people with ascendancy on native subsaharian african populations.

TsunamiZ · Sep 25, 2006, 01:14 PM // 13:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Lozza

Tsunami - I am all for choice, not once have I stated otherwise. I simply think that choice should consist of NEW faces and hair, rather than old ones.
Furthermore, if you read what I've written you will realise (and if you look around you will come to realise) that a goodly proportion of players want to create a 100% Tyrian character in NF. Why not just create the character in Tyria? After all, for pvp purposes creating a character from Cantha/Tyria/Elona is all about picking a certain "look". If you want the Tyrian look you make the character Tyrian.

but to be realistic, anet will unlikely create many new faces / hair to address this issue. so the most practical suggestion is to at least mix in the variety from previous chapters. whether a character is elonian or not is more based on skin color than facial features anyways, since some of the nightfall faces can already look tyrian or cathan if assigned the proper colors. there are 2 solutions to this problem. and either solution is better than settling for the current skimpy choices given to us in the expansions.

Lady Lozza · Sep 25, 2006, 01:35 PM // 13:35

Ok, realistically, I can understand that new hair and faces are low on the list of devs things to do. However a better solution would be in recycling the old ones from different professions.

Example - Queen Christie might have the hair and face of the vast majority of eles, but new players will NEVER be able to create a character like that without getting the campaign. Thus she does have the chance that - in a couple of expansions time, and barring the deleting of her ele - her ele will be rather unique. Honestly, do you really want to get to chapter 6 and find some new player wondering around looking exactly like your character? Being thought of as a "noob" because that look is the current new craze for that profession?

Players claim to want options so they can be unique. Realistically, they all just want a Paris clone. Passing warrior faces on to the chapter x eles would help avoid the former, while still allowing some degree of the blonde bimbo clone.

TsunamiZ · Sep 25, 2006, 02:00 PM // 14:00

plus there is also the issue with hair choices being very limited as the faces in the expansions. and there is nothing wrong with the hair choices being mixed in from all the chapters.

the whole point of the idea is to have unrestricted possiblities for character appearance creation, so people can make the character they prefer or can identify with. like how skills can be mixed from all chapters and professions, same should be possible for character appearances. this issue wouldn't be brought up if anet was decent enough to give us more appearance options to begin with. but they didn't and don't seem to consider this aspect of the game.

cherikku · Sep 25, 2006, 03:44 PM // 15:44

Did you ever notice that several Prophecies monk faces definitely look oriental? They would pass for 'Canthan', not 'Tyrian'. However, I cannot create a Factions monk using a Prophecies monk face, even though it LOOKS Canthan. Why is that? Furthermore, I would LOVE to see the oriental Prophecies monk faces in combination with some of the beautiful oriental-inspired Canthan hairstyles. But I can't. Why is that? Instead, my monk is stuck with, IMO, the only decent Tyrian monk hairstyle - the infamous buns.

As for the argument "if you want your character to look like a Canthan, then start them in Cantha", the issue is the gameplay at the beginning of the campaign. For example, if I made a Canthan character, I'd have to start them at Shing Jea island. What if I wanted to start at Ascalon, because I love doing quests that give me skills as rewards, but I really really wanted my character to look Canthan? I'd have no choice but to start at Shing Jea, and I'd have to spend more gold buying skills. All for the sake of my character's face.

I cannot see the logic behind wanting to restrict the options. If you are so concerned about having an Elonian character who actually looks 'Elonian', then you are free to ignore the *option* to use faces/hair from previous campaigns. You should not be so concerned with what other people will choose.

I also agree with everyone who has said that they want to be able to make, for instance, an Elementalist with Necromancer hair if they wish to. I will add to that-- we should be able to make a blue-haired Mesmer if we wish. Why is it that only Elementalists can have light blue hair? Or how about a Paragon with chalk-white skin? Why is the chalk-white skin restricted to Necromancers?

Torikae · Sep 25, 2006, 05:03 PM // 17:03

What really gets me down in character creation is the lack of attractive males. It's basically possible to create a passably attractive female character of any profession, in any chapter, despite the lack of choice. But the males? Let's face it - It's Elementalist or nothing. There are a few nice necro face-and-hair combos, but then they have that whole hunched-over thing going on. And why do the male warrior have to be built like figurative tanks when a skinny female warrior in a bikini can handle that warhammer just as well? And how disappointed was I with the choices for a male Dervish in the NF preview?

I know none of that's going to change, and that they're hardly going to create a full-customisation system just because one fangirl wants to play a /nice looking/ male monk, or a male mesmer who doesn't run like some kind of ape, and of course there are /much/ more important things they can work on that will be much more beneficial to gameplay, but all the same...

I just find it sad that in a game as graphically impressive as GW, every outpost has to be filled with clones (and fugly clones at that) =(

Twonaiver · Sep 25, 2006, 05:41 PM // 17:41

i saw many good points of view here, but mostly i have to agree in lack of good faces and suckin chapter restrictions keeps me from makin a descent character, the most important here, is player should feel good about character looks to feel motivated in buildin his progression, i mean, will you go 400+ hours on a character you cant look for too long ?

i think not, for me its very dificult to decide the looks of my characters, harder each chapter, i had more faces i liked on prophecies, less on factions and almost none on nightfall, in fact i spend like 2 hours on character buildin screen when i played nightfall on 22nd, and its not the fact theyr african themed, is cuz there was no descent one, at least for my taste, and i think the op stated they are givin us less faces and poor quality ones, and i think its totaly understandable, i do want more templates and textures, i would even pay for havin new ones just to have what i like.
i dont think there should be only dark skinned or african resemblance on a african themed, unless your sayn there is no caucasian people there, and its not true, since racism there is a problem, i think the though of havin one race lookalike is racist.

ok, put on the faces and hair packs on store anet !!!

Badger2 · Sep 25, 2006, 05:55 PM // 17:55

I guess we Americans (at least the ones I know and game with) prefer the more rugged look of the characters in Prophacies and find the faces in Factions acceptable. But in Nightfall the look of all the males in all classes are way too feminine. So much so that we all chose to play female characters instead of the soft wimpy looking male. However there is one female class I won't play. The Nightfall elementalist, she dresses like a porn star and I don't want my 12 year old daughter or 15 year old son watching me play her much less playing her.

And while it is true that the helmet/mask/hood covers the face, it is not the point of others not knowing whats underneath. I will know. Besides, I don't build them to please other gamers.

Matix411 · Sep 25, 2006, 07:00 PM // 19:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badger2

However there is one female class I won't play. The Nightfall elementalist, she dresses like a porn star and I don't want my 12 year old daughter or 15 year old son watching me play her much less playing her.

If they dressed like porn stars, they'd be naked.

So female Mesmers running around in those skimpy, semi-see-through Enchanter's gowns are more appropriate?
If you really take offense to a character's dressings to the point where you won't play them, you're missing out on a lot of fun gameplay.

And I don't mean to be crude, and I'm not saying I don't respect your opinions and/or values, but give me a break; the top the elementalist female wears is almost the equivalent to a bathing suit top, at least on the Sunspear armor, and the bottoms are essentially a slit dress whereby you can see her legs. *Audible Gasp*

And sure, we all know what's 'underneath'; rendered shapes and textures combined in such a way that they ultimately resemble the female form.
This isn't Penthouse, or GTA for that matter, it's a video game trying to retain some form of cultural value.

Back to topic though:
Give me more faces!!!!
I like that idea of putting render packages in the GW Store, pity I just cancelled my credit card though, alas ...